Training dogs with a "shock collar"?
My weimaraner sometimes doesn’t listen to commands that she knows. Also sometimes she lacks real drive. Ive tried clicker training and praise but as many people know weimaraners like to do their own thing. I believe i understand the basics of e collar training, but if there are any professionals that know more please leave me a comment. Thank you!
We do agility and have trained ourselves everything we know. Im KIBAfang90 on youtube. Please check us out.
I forgot to say but im looking for somebody to actualy help me on training with an e collar. I dont want to hear its mean becuase i believe its a wonderful training tool. Also im tired of spending hundreds of dollars on professional trainer when i could get answers here.
If you are going to say something like you need to know how to train a dog first, just have a look at us before you do.
Have respect people. 
Thank You
-KIBAfang90
19 female us
Oh god people can you not READ? For now on if anybody leaves a ridiculous comment about e collars being "mean" i will do my best to flag you off. For one thing how does a shock collar break handler dog bond when it creates a bond.
EX To reinforce come, you say "come" Your dog doesnt and you give them a "static zap" and when the dog starts to come your way you stop the "zap" and when they reach you you praise like crazy. In other words YOU ARE THE SAFE, POSITIVE OBJECT TO THE DOG!
I would also like to say i train dogs! No im no professional, i havent attempted to obtain a degree but it doesnt take a brain to train your dog the basics with a clicker. The only problem is im dealing with a trained dog that doesn’t follow through when she isnt hungry for food or isnt in the mood to listen.
Watch us BEFORE you comment! Here is me and my weimaraner.
Here are e collar trained dogs.
And agian i get people who havent had any experience with e collars or havent seen what benefits can come from e collar training. WATCH THE VIDEOS!
And for one if you have a problem with MY question then dont answer.
Anyways i HAVE seen idiotic owners have thier e collars turned up real high and over zap their dogs. Its quite cruel and abusive. I hate those people. but then agian i have seen people do bad things with a dog leash to thier dog. Also what would happen if a leash wasnt invented you …person… ? What if a clicker wasnt invented? You cant go saying what if because for one now you are opening the right for people to say what if to everything and for seconds the new age e collars dont hurt the dog unless your an abusive pathetic low life as to correct your dog when hes doing right., or not condition your dog.And i love victoria! But not all dogs can be reliable with reward based training, sometimes my dog doesnt care what i have she just wants to run off.
Also the dog was givin to me because she was to be killed if she couldnt find a home. She used to bite real bad but we worked on getting her to like people with positive reinforcement. Now shes not afriad of "scarey" looking people. But her lack of listening and barking at strangers because she wants to bo over there RIGHT NOW isnt something that can be fixed by giving her food or petting her. Shes just not listening and needs to listen. When i say sit and another dog is comming she wouldnt care less what i was giving her or doing to make her happy. The only option is to make her know that breaking a sit is bad..how would YOU do that? Hit your dog, scream?
Kaper
27 Aug, 2010
Boy you came to the wrong place. There are very few people here who actually know or understand the benefits of an electronic collar. Most people haven’t bothered to research them and simply base their response on incorrect information.
Honestly, I started researching e-collars to mount an educated argument against them. But ended up realizing they are a valuable tool when used correctly.
TJ has already given a great answer. As did Jasmer. Actually, this response is a lot less than usual. There are usually so many more "you are evil" answers with a lot more TDs.
I can’t understand how someone can say they are for lazy people, that they should hire a professional trainer or that they don’t work.
Aside from people like TJ (who has more experience than all of the other answerers combined), there are many professional trainers that use e-collars. Search and Rescue, Military and Police departments use them to train their dogs.
Here, one of the new K9s here was having an issue that could be simply resolved using the e-collar, yet the trainer left it as a last resort. The reason? Because the dog had not been e-collar conditioned and it would take longer to train properly. It is anything but a lazy method. You do not slap the collar on and shock. It takes time and effort. In the end, he did use it, and the issue was resolved, rather quickly at that.
As for those who say try it on. I have. On the working level of a Police K9, a Mal. I put it on the inside of my wrist and it was nothing I would even close to consider painful. And I don’t know about your dog, but I know mine have a much higher threshold of pain than I do.
Yes, it can cause problems, if not used correctly. But then again, so can any other method of training.
And I have read every study I can find, the biggest issue with it, incorrect usage. Even the studies against it can be quoted as saying it does no physical damage.
I am sorry, on to your question. These types of answers just irritate me. We don’t all have pet Golden retrievers. Different dogs, different methods.
Here is a great site with tons of info. He also has a forum and you can email him. He will email back. This guy has been doing it a long time and is always willing to help.
http://www.loucastle.com/articles.htm
@ Red Death – you do not describe how you used it but by your description alone, I highly suspect you use it incorrectly. The collar does not stop the behavior. It is used to TRAIN the dog not to do the behavior. You need to teach the dog what is expected FIRST.
Even the way you describe the setting as the "suggested" level for your dog. There is no suggested level.
You put it on the lowest setting and move up until you know the dog can just feel it. You watch for the subtle signs, like an ear flick, not yelps of pain. The better you are at reading the dog, the lower the level will be. That is the starting point. Not some number suggested based on size or breed or whatever.
Brian Kim
27 Aug, 2010
electrical collar training works for few dogs it usually irritates the dog making it frustrated and annoyed which will make it more distracted! Try going to dog training classes but use a electric collar as a very last resort
Dogs and Death Metal
27 Aug, 2010
dont use a shock collar, they are cruel
i would rather hire a proffesional trainer than hurt my dog
T J
27 Aug, 2010
Get this;
http://www.dobbsdogs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13_88&products_id=513
edit
"I HATE SHOCK COLLARS!!! They are a band-aid for people who don’t know how to train"
Oh really!!! How many of these do you have?
http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp43/blunderpic/dogs/P1000303.jpg
There are 122 of them in this notebook, covering several different disciplines.
Some of us actually know how to use training tools.
"The American Pet Dog Trainers Association produces trainers who only use positive reinforcement training"
There is no such thing as "positive reinforcement training", it is a physical impossibility.
Here is a little tidbit for you: the Operant Conditioning definition of "positive" is to add something, and the definition of "reinforcement" is to cause or enhance a desired behavior. So — if a kick in the azz causes or enhances the desired behavior, it was "positive reinforcement". (something was added, and it caused)
Point blank, there is no possible way to train a dog without using positive or negative punishment. Saying "NO" is positive punishment, not giving the dog the cookie is negative punishment. The four Operant Conditioning terms have nothing to do with being nice or mean. They all four can be done properly or they can be done abusively.
Negative reinforcement is to take away (end) something. (often called aversion training) It’s simplest form is making a lead correction before giving the command. (correction ends) When a lead correction is made after giving the command it can be either positive reinforcement or positive punishment (Dependant on the dogs reaction to the command)
Jill The Yorkie
27 Aug, 2010
KIBAfang90??? IT’S ME YORKIEAGILITY97!
No, never use a shock collar on Liberty (if that’s who you’re talking about). It will take a while, Jill is still learning, too.
http://ecollars.net/
Probably won’t help a lot, sorry
kdoulos
27 Aug, 2010
I HATE SHOCK COLLARS!!! They are a band-aid for people who don’t know how to train, and are too lazy to try or hire a professional. They actually are the cause of many more behavioral problems in dogs. It will make an aggressive dog more aggressive and even fearful, it will lower your dogs self esteem, destroy the bond you have with your dog, and destroy their trust. Trust me, I have had to come in and fix the problems caused by an owner who tried to use a shock collar on a dog.
I refuse to cause pain to a dog just to make it do what I want it to. I train dogs and specialize in aggression cases. NEVER use a shock collar on a dog. There are much kinder and more positive ways to train a dog. Please hire a dog trainer who only uses positive reinforcement. If they use shock, pinch, or choke chains, they are not the trainer for you.
I recommend searching the APDT website. The American Pet Dog Trainers Association produces trainers who only use positive reinforcement training (Victoria Stillwell is one such trainer), and you’ll be able to find a trainer in your area.
Shannon
27 Aug, 2010
just because you chose a difficult breed does NOT mean you should shock the dog. Where would you be if shock collars just didn’t exist? okay well pretend that is the way. Do not go to a place of answers acting like a jerk and expect to not hear its cruel. You are going to do nothing but frustrate her more. and that crap it doesnt hurt is bullshit. just train your dog the old fashion way you know without laziness
Jasmer
27 Aug, 2010
Shock collars are not cruel. Anybody who knows how they function and how to properly use one knows this. Anybody who’s experienced a shock from touching a grocery car or car door, congrats, you know what the stupid collar feels like.
Anyway, the collar should be set at the absolute minimum setting that gets results. The point is to startle and distract the dog momentarily upon failure to obey a command. The result is that every time the dog ignores a command, it gets a mild, unexpected shock.
However, you say your dog doesn’t consistently obey commands. Try NILIF training to earn a little more respect from your dog. Very often failure to follow commands is a lack of respect, and a shock collar is not ideal for instilling respect. I prefer to leave shock collars to life and death type of training situations, like attack dogs or farm dogs that chase the truck, livestock, or the tractor and risk seriously injuring or killing themselves or somebody else.
Some dogs are just plain stubborn, and if you’ve tried several trainers, and can honestly say you’ve been consistent and firm in your training, and have not given your dog an inch, then an e collar may be something to think about.
E-collar training is ideally done under the supervision of a knowledgeable trainer, one who knows how to find the sweet spot on the setting and exactly when to time it. Somebody who can watch you interact with your dog and guide you as to when you should or should not shock. If you’re going for the shock collar route, I really recommend getting a trainer.
[Add] The only cruel aspect about a shock collar is somebody who uses one untrained, uses it out of frustration, or uses it with the express intent of inflicting pain as a form of punishment. The collar is not punishment by any stretch of the imagination, it is to reinforce a command. Too many people abuse them and cause their dog serious psychological problems. A trainer is necessary if you haven’t been properly instructed before.
[Add] And save the whole "it hurts the dog" crusade. "Try it out on your neck you’ll see it hurts!" Not if you put it at the lowest possible setting that would get your attention and get you listening. Dogs have a higher pain tolerance than we do, and are easily distracted by things much more interesting than pain, hence the settings. The lowest setting that gets consistent results is not causing the dog a great amount of pain. It is a shock.
Red Death
27 Aug, 2010
I don’t agree with them on a personal level, but I also don’t think they work.
I rescued a mill dog with a very wild personality. I worked with her every single day for a good year, took her to training classes, and even paid small fortunes for two private trainers to come and work with her in my home. Nothing worked, and as one of her bad habits was a tendency to bolt into traffic, I was getting desperate. After she escaped and was nearly hit by three different cars, I finally caved and bought a shock collar.
It didn’t work. I tried using it on the dog, and it didn’t curb her behavior one little bit. It wasn’t a good training tool, didn’t stop the bad habits and certainly didn’t enforce good ones. It’s not effective in the slightest. You can do more with a handful of treats in a single day than you can do with a shock collar. They only instill fear in the dog, not good behavior.
I also tried the collar on myself at one point. It was beyond painful, and I had it on a setting lower than the one recommended for the size of my dog. I suppose the entire idea is that the pain is enough to get the dog’s attention and stop the behavior, but like my dog’s, my reaction was to run and try to escape. One of my few regrets in life is that I ever used something like this on an animal.
And though you didn’t want to hear comments about this affecting the dog’s bond with the owner, it does. My dog would never come to me after I shocked her, and she wouldn’t go anywhere near any other humans, either. She was hurt and afraid but didn’t know where the pain was coming from. This doesn’t encourage training, because a dog in that state just shuts down mentally.
I’m sorry that you were so annoyed by our responses, but the fact remains: shock collars are never the answer. I was still new to dogs when I bought the collar, but having had other dogs and learned what actually works, I won’t ever even consider one of these again. They’re evil in my opinion, but they’re also useless. Find some other way, because this isn’t it.